The latest two-week Atlantic Yards Construction Alert, issued yesterday by Empire State Development after preparation by developer Forest City Ratner, warns that on one (yet unspecified) day during this period, 40 trucks will be delivering concrete to the B2 modular tower site at the corner of Dean Street and Flatbush Avenue:
The first mat slab, elevator and sump pit wall pour will be scheduled during this reporting period. Approximately 40 concrete trucks will be delivering to the site during the course of the day of this pour. A separate logistics plan has been submitted and approved by the OEM for this work. Trucks will be unloading the concrete behind the MPT barrier on Dean Street and utilizing the Pacific Street queue area when needed in order to avoid queuing and idling on Dean Street and/or adjacent roadways.
Pile drilling and noise complaints
The alert also states, regarding pile drilling at the railyard site:
Actual pile drilling along and outside the south wall to the yard started on April 22nd and will continue for the next several months. All mitigation devices are in place and are being monitored hourly and daily with respect to noise and dust. As the process progresses and we gain experience with this new drilling equipment, we will actively seek to tweak and try to improve on mitigation.
The latter may be a response to complaints like these (1, 2, 3, 4) on Atlantic Yards Watch:
Pile driving from Atlantic Yards is causing the mirrors on my walls to shake.
Construction in Atlantic Yards rail bed is causing my apartment building to shake
Vibrations from pile-driving on Pacific street rail yards are causing the furniture to shake inside my apartment.
From 10 am to the present (noon), pile driving on the rail beds is causing the light fixtures and furniture in my apartment to vibrate. The entire building is shaking slightly. I could hear the metal in my wall sconces jiggling out loud. It's like a constant earthquake.
I live at 560 Dean Street. I have experienced severe vibrations in our building caused by the work they are doing on Pacific. I have actually gone outside during the vibrations to see the cause, and it appears that the vibrations occur when they are using the large drill-like machine on Pacific that is shoring up the wall. These vibrations are occurring every day, sometimes for minutes at a time. I am concerned that these vibrations are causing structural issues with our building and the building around us. We are a block away from the construction, so I assume that the vibrations are even work for the buildings closer to the construction site."
According to the latest two-week Atlantic Yards Construction Alert, issued (and dated) yesterday by Empire State Development after preparation by developer Forest City Ratner, there may be adjustments coming on pile drilling at the Vanderbilt Yard:
Actual pile drilling along and outside the south wall to the yard started on April 22nd and will continue for the next several months. All mitigation devices are in place and are being monitored hourly and daily with respect to noise and dust. As the process progresses and we gain experience with this new drilling equipment, we will actively seek to tweak and try to improve on mitigation.
Regarding the modular residential tour known as B2:
Site excavation is expected to be completed within this reporting period. Work will result in the use of 5-10 dump trucks (varies per day, 3 round trips each) and up to 15-30 loads of material to be transported off site per day.
A new fence is going up:
During the week of April 29th a construction fence on the east side of the Dean Street entrance to the arena for the purpose of beginning construction of the transfer foundations for B2. Removal of existing paving in this area will also commence.
The always insightful and skeptical (not) Betty Liu of Bloomberg TV yesterday had an exclusive interview with Bruce Ratner and MaryAnne Gilmartin of Forest City Ratner, as the former--as had been in the works--stepped down as CEO but will remain as chairman.
Also note the over-the-top praise issued by Borough President Marty Markowitz:
Throughout his career, Bruce has dedicated himself to improving the lives of Brooklynites and New Yorkers—his vision and commitment to investing in our borough not only provided the lifeblood for Barclays Center, but was a driving force behind Brooklyn’s continued renaissance. I have every confidence that under the capable leadership of MaryAnne Gilmartin, the love affair between Brooklyn and Forest City Ratner will continue to grow and flourish.
From the TV interview
BL: "Bruce, you're a friend of this program... tell me the thinking behind you stepping aside as CEO for day-to-day operations?"
BR: "MaryAnne and I worked together for 18 years. we've done so much together. MaryAnne likes to say, and she 's right, we've finished each others sentences.... part of good leadership is establishing succession...."
BL: "You've worked almost two decades at Forest City Ratner... how are you going to take this company from here on out?"
MAG: "It's a pleasure to be here, a pleasure to be partner with Bruce. This is an exhilarating moment for me. What it really tells the world that women can do bricks and mortar... Women make good developers because it's problem solving, it's the great Rubik's cube of real estate. I'm proud to be part of a company that is known for doing great, creative work."
"You're 'leaning in,'" quipped the host, prompting satisfied laughs all around.
MAG: "We also have a portfolio, it shows that not only can women do real estate, they can drive operational excellence...I would not have taken the job had Bruce not agreed to be actively involved in day to day operations."
What's next: Atlantic Yards
BL: "What is next then for Forest City?"
MAG: "First of all, we are all about Atlantic Yards. 6400 units of housing... Over a million and a half people have passed through Barclays since it's opened. It's been an extraordinary success, and we're thrilled."
Gilmartin then noted that "there are 15" buildings, "predominantly housing, a large number of affordable units. So a priority of the company is to execute on the entitlements that we worked so hard to bring to bear at Atlantic Yards."
Actually, there are supposed to be 16 buildings, so it sounds like Gilmartin was either being careless or eliminating either the B1 office tower at the intersection of Atlantic and Flatbush avenues or, possibly, another tower.
What about modular?
Liu asked about the company's modular construction plans.
BR: "We think it has tremendous applications for a city like New York City.. holds costs down, fast, efficient, environmentally wonderful. MaryAnne has executed beautifully... You know exactly what your costs are... efficient, also very environmentally friendly. Most importantly is the cost element. Work in a factory, union wages are very, very appropriate both for the worker and for our company."
MAG: "Brooklyn is booming. I believe that, if we build it, they will come, so speed to market is a huge benefit of modular. The culture of the company... is really one that rewards creativity, it drives innovations.. we have the talent in house to do something in an industry that really doesn't innovate much... What makes modular so extraordinary is that it's such a grand departure from the way things have typically been done."
If Brooklyn is booming, then why won't Forest City build a deck over the Vanderbilt Yard before building on the Atlantic Yards parking lot?
Liu asked why others haven't done similarly?
BR: "It's not an innovative industry. Second thing, you need to have a pipeline of product... We've spent probably $10 million in the development of modular. a lot of research has gone into it. most companies don't have the time, interest, nor the pipeline... If you build one building and wait a couple of years, it doesn't make sense to put the time investment and the money investment. Because of Atlantic Yards, we can do that."
MAG: "We want to feed that factory... if you don't have the pipeline that Bruce mentioned, you can't feed that factory."
BR: "Now that the Islanders are leaving, and I think it's' good for everybody, but that's a very old coliseum, an old arena, the idea, how do you make something... it's a great place, a really live place... we think Nassau Coliseum should be fixed up, made into a music venue, a sports venue."
Barclays Center
BL: "What's next for Barclays Center?"
MAG: "We've had a lot of volume and variety, i think it's really sustaining the excellence, in terms of programming...best food of any arena.. We need to keep up the very high bar. The employees, we have high employee satisfaction, they love working there... the great track record we started. And finally, to be a very good neighbor to the community in Brooklyn. There were lots of concerns about that. We worked very hard to make sure this was of the community and in the community, and we need to keep doing a very fine job in that area."
Note that there's also been significant turnover at the arena, and no health insurance for the approximately 1900 part-time workers. As for being a good neighbor, note regular complaints and incident reports on Atlantic Yards Watch, including several examples of bass leaking into the community.
And, of course, there's an ongoing process for a Supplemental Environmental Impact Statement regarding the state's failure to study the impact of a potential 25-year buildout, as opposed to the long-promised decade, or the 15 years the state finally studied.
In addition, [Gilmartin] said she will also work to build up a new pipeline of development sites, particularly in Queens, and will work to make the Metrotech Center, a complex of office buildings Forest City Ratner began building along Flatbush Avenue in downtown Brooklyn in the late 1980s, appealing to technology and creative companies. Originally, it was pitched as ideal back office space for major Wall Street firms. While many developers have focused on areas like Manhattan's far West Side, Ms. Gilmartin said she is looking to create new projects in Queens, though she declined to specify what neighborhoods she would focus on. "The West Side is crowded," Ms. Gilmartin said. "I like the East Side and Queens." On Manhattan's Lower East Side, Forest City is expected to be among the companies submitting a bid to develop the big, long vacant Seward Park residential project.
On the same morning that Bruce Ratner announced that he was stepping down as President and Chief Executive Officer of Forest City Ratner, he also sat down for the “Featured Interview” at the Street and Smith’s Sports Business Journal’s “Sports Facilities and Franchises ’13″ event at the Brooklyn Bridge Marriott.
(Note that they also went to the Nets' final game last night.)
Ratner, asked about whether the Islanders would move to the Barclays Center a year before the announced 2015-16 season, was evasive: “At this point, no” discussion.
Regarding hockey:
Ratner acknowledged that the arena can’t hold more than 14,500 – that will make it the smallest capacity in the NHL. “There will be some adjustment, in terms of premium seating, but generally it will be like it is now,” Ratner said. “A positive is that the sight lines are extraordinary for hockey.”
The sight lines are not extraordinary everywhere, I'd bet.
Regarding community concerns:
Ratner has tended in the past to downplay the resistance level the team faced in the neighborhoods, but not as much on Wednesday. “We had a lot of opposition for a long time,” Ratner said, adding that “a lot of people didn’t want it.” But he said that now, “Almost all people who live within a few blocks of the arena use it and love it.”
That should be taken with the same grain of salt required when Ratner said he "anticipated" completing Atlantic Yards in a decade.
Regarding the design:
As for the departure of renowned architect Frank Gehry, Ratner said that while that scrapped arena design was more expensive, “it wasn’t so much the cost, it was the complexity and size of it.” “The most important thing was that the [Gehry] arena design required us to build four buildings around the arena, attached,” Ratner said. “But that was not financially or economically doable. When that happened, because of deadline problems we had with our bonds,” a new design was needed. Ratner added that a redesign of a Frank Gehry arena in a short time was “just not possible.” Ratner says that the scaled-down version doesn’t leave him missing any element of the original, except maybe less storage space within the arena.
Yes, the four towers were tethered to the arena, but also the Gehry arena was 850,000 square feet, as opposed to 675,000 square feet. That's a big difference.
FCE announcement Forest City Announces Leadership Transition at New York Subsidiary MaryAnne Gilmartin Succeeds Bruce Ratner as President & CEO of Forest City Ratner Companies; Ratner to Serve as Executive Chairman CLEVELAND, April 17, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- Forest City Enterprises, Inc. (NYSE: FCEA and FCEB) today announced that MaryAnne Gilmartin, executive vice president of commercial and residential development, will succeed Bruce Ratner as president and chief executive officer of the company's Brooklyn-based subsidiary, Forest City Ratner Companies (FCRC). Ratner will serve as executive chairman of FCRC. The transition is part of the company's ongoing succession planning and is effective immediately. "Under the leadership of Bruce Ratner, the New York metropolitan area has become our largest core market and a key component of our overall value-creation model," said David J. LaRue, Forest City Enterprises president and chief executive officer. "He has also built a great team of real estate professionals with expertise in development, operations and management. We are thrilled that MaryAnne Gilmartin will continue this legacy and assume day-to-day leadership of FCRC as president and CEO, and that Bruce will continue to play a key role as executive chairman. I look forward to working with both of them along with the rest of the New York team." Gilmartin joined FCRC in 1994. During her 18-year tenure, she has played a pivotal role in a number of the company's most highly visible projects in the region, including Barclays Center arena, New York by Gehry at 8 Spruce Street and the New York Times Building. She began her career in real estate in 1986 as a New York City Urban Fellow at the Public Development Corporation. Ratner founded FCRC in 1985 in partnership with Cleveland-based Forest City Enterprises. Under his leadership, FCRC became one of the most active real estate businesses in the New York metropolitan area, developing, owning and operating more than 40 office, retail, hotel, and residential projects, totaling approximately 15 million square feet. In 2006, FCRC became a wholly owned subsidiary of Forest City Enterprises.
There was no explanation, but it's safe to assume that, with the near-completion of the arena, those construction trailers were unnecessary/redundant. There are no plans yet to build on that site, aka B4.
It is slated to the the third of the modular residential buildings around the arena--first, the 32-story B2, which began construction in December at the corner of Flatbush Avenue and Dean Street, then the somewhat shorter B3 at the northwest corner of Sixth Avenue and Dean, then B4 (about 50 stories) at the southwest corner of Sixth and Atlantic Avenue.
I think it's safe to assume that the developer want to make sure they can get the first two buildings right before trying one that's much larger. B3 is supposed to start six to nine months after first is completed (which should be mid/late 2014), and third building on the same schedule, so that suggests an early 2016 start for B4. But nothing with Atlantic Yardsis predictable.
I assume the removal of the construction trailers will be discussed at a future public meeting, such as the next Atlantic Yards Quality of Life meeting, likely in late April.
A vacant lot on Broadway between Academy and 204th Streets in Inwood is littered with rubble and concrete pilings. But in a matter of weeks, this 50-foot-wide sand pit will be transformed into a seven-story apartment building, with finished bathrooms, maple cabinetry and 10 terraces. It is not a magic trick, but rather the result of modular, or prefabricated, construction.
A technique in which a building is manufactured piecemeal on a factory assembly line, trucked to the construction site and erected much the way Legos are, modular construction is gaining popularity across New York City...
The announcement late last year that Forest City Ratner would use modular construction to build its first residential tower at the Atlantic Yards development in Brooklyn helped to shine a spotlight on this method of construction, and New York City, in announcing the winner of its first microunit apartment building design contest, has chosen a modular design.
The trend toward modular does pose issues, particularly for New York City’s powerful construction unions. It means exporting some construction jobs to factories outside New York, and while many modular factories are unionized, the employees tend to earn less than traditional construction workers. For its part, Forest City Ratner announced that the Building and Construction Trades Council of Greater New York had created a modular division to help build its 32-story high-rise, and it joined with Skanska USA in creating a modular company at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.
“Any change in the way you do business involves some concerns and issues,” said Richard T. Anderson, the president of the New York Building Congress, a nonprofit organization that represents professionals in the construction industry. “If for New York City construction, business as usual is a challenge, you need to change some of the basic ingredients, and labor and management needs to address this.”
Gary LaBarbera, the president of the Building and Construction Trades Council of Greater New York, declined to comment.
Why wouldn't LaBarbera comment? Perhaps because " while many modular factories are unionized, the employees tend to earn less than traditional construction workers."
And perhaps because some specialized unions--plumbers, electricians, steamfitters--are unhappy that their expertise is needed far less in the modular process, according to testimony at a January City Council hearing.
Empire State Development, the state agency overseeing Atlantic Yards, yesterday sent out the two-week Construction Alert dated Monday, Feb. 18, after preparation by developer Forest City Ratner.
There is site excavation at the site of the B2 tower on Dean Street and Flatbush Avenue, involving "the use of 2-3 dump trucks (3 round trips each), 9 loads of material off site." It's not clear whether that's a daily or cumulative total.
An electric meter, and then start-up of HVAC systems is scheduled at the Dean Street Playground Comfort Station, renovated by Forest City as part of the construction impact mitigation requirements.
And there's various work going on at the LIRR Yard, including the removal of parking and trees from the north side of Pacific Street between Sixth and Carlton avenues:
• PT/JV [Posillico Tully/Joing Venture] has removed the boulders and concrete debris in block 1121 and will cut down and level the existing dirt pile accordingly. • PT/JV will continue work on the drilling of tiebacks on the east end of the south yard. PT/JV will start to mobilize all material needed to install the new MPT on Pacific Street between Carlton and 6th Avenues. The actual implementation of the MPT is currently planned for the week of February 18, 2013.
While I on 1/31/13 reported that Pacific Street between Sixth and Carlton avenues perpendicular to the Atlantic Yards arena block would go back to westbound one-way traffic and parking on north side would be eliminated for railyard work, we didn't know the time frame.
According to the latest Atlantic Yards Construction Update (below), released yesterday by Empire State Development after preparation by Forest City Ratner, the duration will be eight month, and will start in two week:
MPT [maintenance and protection of traffic] for the pile drilling along the southern side of the yard on Pacific Street between 6th Avenue and Carlton Avenue is currently planned to be installed during the week of February 18th. The MPT will consist of a construction fence above jersey barriers, creation of a construction logistics/work area on Pacific Street which will result in the closure of the north sidewalk on Pacific and use of a portion of the street bed adjacent to the sidewalk. During the time that the MPT is in place, Pacific Street, between Carlton and 6th Avenues, will become one-way westbound; parking will only be permitted along the south side of Pacific Street. The MPT is projected to be in place for approximately eight (8) months.
Also, the alert announced work on the B-2 modular tower:
• Delivery of additional equipment as required supporting continued excavation. • Support of Excavation (SOE) piles will continue to be installed and filled with concrete. • Continue first cut / excavation of site work conditions in coordination with approved SOE and commence 2nd excavation cut down another +/- 8ft. • Test pile installation complete 1/30/13. Testing procedure to commence. Production drilling installation activities targeted to start 2/11/13. • Daily cleanup activities of sidewalks and streets as required ongoing.
There are changes planned for Pacific Street between Sixth and Carlton avenues perpendicular to the Atlantic Yards arena block, and they involve less parking, different traffic, and railyard work.
The first clue came in a report (below) from consultant STV, which works for Empire State Development, the state agency overseeing Atlantic Yards.
The report said that the Department of Transportation was considering eliminating street parking on Pacific while Forest City continues to upgrade the Long Island Rail Road's Vanderbilt Yard.
That plan apparently has been modified.
Changes coming next week
A neighborhood resident forwarded me an excerpt from a preview of two-week Atlantic Yards Construction Alert scheduled to be released on Monday.
Pacific Street, which now has cramped two-way traffic, especially on event nights, will go back to westbound one-way traffic, thus making it easier to stage construction vehicles for the B2 tower on Pacific Street east of Vanderbilt Avenue, a demapped street adjacent to the arena parking lot.
For perhaps two years, all parking on north side of Pacific will be eliminated until construction is completed. This should cut down on the number of black cars and limos idling on the street. Still, Pacific Street will remain attractive to anyone seeking parking, including construction workers.
All trees on the north side will be removed for construction, but replanted when construction is finished. Construction is not expected to go overnight.
Did a top executive from developer Forest City Ratner--which proudly stresses that it only builds in New York with union labor--mislead Council Member Letitia James when she asked whether the fabricator of steel for modular housing as a union shop?
Evidence suggests yes.
The exchange came during the lengthy Committee hearing January 22 on modular construction, as excerpted in the video below. (Turn up the volume.)
James asked if any elements of B2, the initial tower being built at Atlantic Yards, would be built outside the city and state.
Yes, replied External Affairs VP Ashley Cotton, identifying the steel chassis of the modules. She noted that it's "incredibly noxious, industrial sort of work," not typically done in New York.
"Where will it be built?" asked James.
"Fredericksburg, Virginia," responded Bob Sanna, Executive VP and Director of Construction and Design Development. Cotton repeated the location. (Actually, the firm Banker Steel, which also made steel for the Barclays Center arena, is headquartered in Lynchburg, VA.)
"And is that site a union shop?" asked James, at 0:33 of the video.
Cotton pushed the microphone toward Sanna.
"Yes, for our steel fabricators, yes it is," he responded.
Seconds later, at the 0:42 mark of the video, Cotton turned back toward Sanna and briefly shook her head, a gesture that suggested correction or reproach. She did not, however, publicly inform the Committee on Housing and Buildings.
Checking with Banker Steel
Virginia is a right-to-work state and company owner Dan Banker, who supplied a plane for Republican candidates to fly around the state in October 2009, doesn't fit the profile of a union supporter or partner.
So I contacted Banker Steel to ask if it was a union shop. I got an evasive response from spokesman Emanuel Guerreiro: "You can find out more about Banker Steel at www.bankersteel.com. Any questions relating to B2 should be addressed to Forest City Ratner."
The firm's web site doesn't indicate union workers, nor does a job announcement, as in the screenshot below.
Yesterday, I received confirmation from a labor source in Virginia that Banker Steel is not a union shop.
Checking with Forest City
Before then, early in the morning, I contacted Forest City Ratner spokesman Joe DePlasco, citing Banker Steel's evasiveness, and asking him to clarify Sanna's comment. He didn't respond.
Later in the day, I sent the above video to Cotton, asking for clarification. She didn't respond.
I also sent the video to Council Member James, commenting that evidence suggested Forest City had lied. Her response: "All I can say is I am not surprised."
Why it matters: Forest City's rep as union supporter
This matters for two reasons. First, Forest City has both pledged to use union labor and harvested significant, vocal union support for its projects.
The hearing, in a bit of a twist, highlighted certain unions who feel they're getting a bad deal from Forest City's modular plans--because cross-trained workers in the modular factory will do work that licensed trades otherwise must do, apparently with the permission of the Department of Buildings, a very contested issue.
So any mention of non-union work would have further fueled antagonism toward the developer among the dozens of union workers in the hearing room and in an overflow room.
Why it matters: obscuring Forest City's savings Second, given the enormous amounts of steel required in this building, which relies not only on a steel frame but a steel chassis for each module, Banker Steel will wind up doing a significant fraction of the work.
How much hasn't been quantified, but consider that, according to the press release below, Banker Steel has expanded a Lynchburg facility by 45,000 square feet for a workshop dedicated to fabrication of these modules, and plans to hire 50 new employees, possibly more.
So, if there are 50 off-site workers in Virginia--plus supervisors and existing staff--and 150 off-site workers in Brooklyn, that suggests that at least 25% of workers building the modules are actually non-union, further saving Forest City money.
Of course, buildings use prefabricated materials all the time--local workers don't assemble toilets, for example, but buy them from suppliers. And nobody made a big deal of counting how many Banker Steel employees contributed to the steel for the arena facade.
In this case, though Banker Steel provides a notably larger fraction of B2 materials and labor. So it's important to know the firm's status, and to get a straight answer from Forest City.
On Tuesday, Jan. 22, Empire State Development released the periodic two-week Atlantic Yards Construction Alert, dated 1/21/13 and prepared by developer Forest City Ratner.
The alert notes excavation work, as well as drilling, at the site of the modular tower B2, at Flatbush Avenue and Dean Street.
It also indicates that work has been nearly completed at the Dean Street Playground Comfort Station, built by Forest City as "part of the construction impact mitigation requirements." Utilities are expected to be turned on during these two weeks.
The alert mentions "punch list" work at the comfort station and at the Long Island Rail Road yard, but not "punch list" work at the arena site itself. However, such work is expected to continue at the arena until the end of February, according to the construction monitor who reports to the arena bond trustee.
Is the New York City Department of Buildings (DOB) bending the rules to allow Atlantic Yards developer Forest City Ratner (FCR) to prefabricate housing off-site without the supervision of licensed plumbers, electricians, and steamfitters?
That's what both unions reps and their contractor counterparts charged yesterday at a lengthy oversight hearing yesterday (link to video) on modular housing held by the City Council's Committee on Housing and Buildings. And some said it was done at Forest City's behest.
"So, the bottom line is we're compromising safety for the bottom line?" asked Council Member Letitia James at one point.
"When it comes to exempting modular housing from the requirements of the [Building] Code, I think the answer to that is yes," replied Stewart O'Brien, executive director of The Plumbing Foundation.
Council Chairperson Dilan
Representatives of the DOB and FCR were not around to respond, having already testified. The developer stressed the myriad expected benefits of high-rise modular construction, as its B2 tower at Atlantic Yards would, at 32 stories, be the world's tallest modular tower, with 363 units, half subsidized.
(DOB did not respond to my late-day query for comment. Forest City directed my query to DOB.)
Committee Chair Erik Martin Dilan, who took pains to say he favored affordable housing and couldn't speak to any alleged intervention by Forest City, stated, "But what I do see occur is clear non-compliance with the code. We will ask the Buildings Department and the Mayor's Office why they think this has occurred, because I think it should be corrected."
Dilan also observed that the hearing "is being done without fanfare, without press." Most attendees at the hearing, held at 250 Broadway near City Hall, were union members. Forest City's lobbyist was one of the few who stayed all 4.5 hours.
Graphics from Forest City presentation
Union fissure, varied support
The hearing exposed a lingering fissure in union ranks over the Atlantic Yards modular plan. When news of Forest City's plans emerged in March 2011, several unions expressed dismay and concern about compromised safety and lowered wages, especially since they'd vocally rallied for the project.
Since then, Forest City signed a deal with the Building and Construction Trades Council of Greater New York, whose president, Gary LaBarbera, said at the groundbreaking last month, "It will create union construction jobs with good wages and benefits that may have been at risk if not for the strong labor-management partnership that exists between Forest City Ratner and the Building and Construction Trades."
At the hearing, longtime supporters of Atlantic Yards affordable housing, including former ACORN head Bertha Lewis, forcefully urged faster adoption of such prefabricated techniques, seeing it as a solution to the housing deficit. (The Affordable Housing Memorandum of Understanding ACORN signed also obligated Lewis to support the project.)
As those testifying critically about the DOB were mostly beefy white guys of a certain age, Lewis, a middle-aged black woman, made scornful reference to the building trades' history of excluding people of color. (James, a critic of Atlantic Yards, skeptic of the DOB, and supporter of affordable housing, later uttered the obvious: "There's a subtext... the issue is obviously race and class.")
Also submitting testimony in favor of prefab construction was the powerful Real Estate Board of New York, which said Forest City's innovations--adapting modular for high-rises and working out an agreement with unions--could "be an important and effective way to address our city's chronic shortage of affordable housing." The Association for a Better New York, another business group, also supported modular. Lower wages but other benefits Forest City hopes to ultimately save 25% off conventional construction, thanks to lower wages in the factory (operated in partnership with Skanska at the Brooklyn Navy Yard), higher productivity in an indoor setting, and time savings--20 months vs. 30 months--by working simultaneously on-site and off-site. Some 60% of the tower will be constructed off-site.
"They get paid less," Forest City's Melissa Burch said of the 125 union factory workers, "but there are benefits to that. They have a steady, 40-hour-a-week job, and to the extent this is successful, they will be working in the factory 52 weeks a year."
They will be cross-trained, so carpenters, for example, will do tile work and put in electrical components. "We hope this is a long-term solution for Atlantic Yards," Burch said, and "a new business for New York City." The job would be safer, create less waste, and cause less community noise and disruption. The first building is aimed for LEED Silver.
Dilan asked about the wage difference.
Forest City executives (l.-r.) Cotton, Burch, Sanna
"It's probably about half?"Burch responded, uncertainly.
"I don't know that it's necessarily half," followed up Forest City Executive VP Bob Sanna. "We have negotiated an average wage in the factory that is approximately $36 an hour, with benefits." He said that's "completely in line" with other manufacturing of building components and that the rate "is probably 10 or 15% less than if the person were employed on site."
That later drew a heated response from John Murphy, Business Manager of Plumbers Local Number 1, who said that the wages were actually 70% less than those for plumbers, who must go through more than 1,000 hours of classroom training and 10,000 hours of on-the-job experience.a lengthy apprenticeship and training system.
Forest City's plan, he said, has "the potential to turn a very highly skilled trade that takes years of training, practice, and experience into unskilled assembly work," which could be shipped out of state. (Council Member Lew Fidler, a longtime Atlantic Yards supporter hand, suggested that the Council find ways to "incentivize" local fabrication.)
James asked at one point, "If this were built conventionally, how many union members would there be on site?"
"I don't have those numbers on me," replied Ashley Cotton, Forest City External Affairs VP.
The developer has long been fuzzy on an apples-to-apples comparison. At a public meeting last November, Burch stated that “Modular construction will require approximately the same number of man-hours as conventional construction."
However, Cotton could not answer how many construction workers were needed to build the building in terms of job-years, a common term used to evaluate jobs promised for the project. (Projections included 15,000 job-years and 17,000 job-years.)
Nor has there yet been a comparison between the promised construction workers benefits (compensation x job-years) and those currently contemplated.
Code change?
O'Brien (l.) and Murphy
The most serious charges were lodged by O'Brien of The Plumbing Foundation. The city, he said, has changed the code requirement that people performing plumbing work must be in the "direct employ" of licensed firms which are then accountable and responsible for their employees' work.
"In April 2011, the DOB issued a Bulletin [bottom] which seemingly allowed employees of non-licensed firms to perform plumbing work in large units being fabricated in a factory and later assembled into high-rise residential buildings," he said. "The use of non-licensed personnel to perform plumbing work in high-rise buildings was never permitted before."
"We brought this error to the attention to the DOB in a meeting on Dec. 19, 2011," he continued. "Attending were representatives of the licensed trades and the highest-ranking officials of DOB. DOB stated that it was not its intent to change the clear provision of the New York City Building Code. DOB said it would reissue the Bulletin to make clear that plumbing work must be performed by employees of licensed firms. Over the next 12 months, we repeatedly requested the issuance of that revised Bulletin or, if DOB changed its mind, an explanation of why DOB thought that high-rise modular construction was exempt from the direct employ Code provisions. DOB did neither."
After that December meeting, O'Brien recalled, "Some of our contractors said, Oh, yeah, Forest City Ratner reached out to us. They said, 'No, no, no. We took care of that at the Department of Buildings. Only the site work has to be done by employees of licensed firms.'"
"Clearly, there was interaction between the developer and the Buildings Department to change how they read the code," O'Brien said.
"I don't think it's a matter of interpretation... All I heard today was a lot of tap-dancing, I didn't hear a straight reason," he said of the DOB's relatively brief testimony. He scoffed at analogies to fabrication of a boiler or a jacuzzi: "This not a boiler... this is a unit with a life safety system, electrical work, plumbing work, fire suppression work. They can't change the code. That's what you guys are for."
"Something or somebody changed their mind, and I can only believe it was for cost-savings reasons," he said. "It certainly wasn't for safety reasons."
"Ratner," uttered one Plumbers Union member.
O'Brien said the cost changes were "minute" given the overall savings planned. Then again, Murphy, when I queried him, said that a building the size of B2 would typically have 30 to 40 plumbers on site but in this case only would have about a dozen, doing the connection work that can't be done in the factory.
Murphy told the committee: "Each and every time my organization has a conversation with Forest City, we asked Who's the licensed plumbing firm? They said, That's been worked out. Each and every time, it's been worked out. So we're here today to find out with whom."
"Bloomberg," uttered a plumber.
What DOB said
Two DOB officials constituted the first panel. Dilan asked if licensed professionals were required.
Fariello (l.) and Sehgal (c.)
"The work that is done off-site... has several options," responded General Counsel Mona Sehgal. "You don't have to do it through a licensed plumber, electrician, et cetera. There are options that we have in our code that allow for alternative methods that you have to come us and let us know... there has to be certain quality assurances that you provide to us... with respect to inspections, monitoring, then as you long as you have fairly robust quality controls, you can go ahead and do that work off-site. Licensee requirements kick in when the work is installed at the job site."
Dilan asked if the agency was prepared "for handling this different type of housing?"
"I think we're prepared for with this full process," First Deputy Commissioner Thomas Fariello responded. " We may have to ramp up our folks when we get more of these [towers] coming to us. We have a high-rise [inspection] unit, and they're going to monitor all high-rises, as they're going up. We're going to have them relate to, it's coming in a box and coming off a crane... I think we're well suited."
Fidler asked what research the DOB had done on the structural integrity of modular construction.
"This was a concern of ours," Fariello said, regarding B2. "We had a structural engineer do what's called a peer review... another engineer that we approved to do a review of the first engineer's work."
Council Member Brad Lander, who said it was important to have more clarity during this moment of technological change, asked for more information about that additional engineering review. Fariello said he'd provide it.
The DOB: temporary rule lingers
"As I understand it, the rule is temporary," Lander said, "and went along with a rule-making process that's supposed to lead to a final rule. Am I right about that?"
"Yes," Fariello replied. "We didn't get to the rule yet. The Bulletin is what we've been using."
"You're in the process of developing a rule," Lander continued. "Do you have a sense of when the rule will be promulgated?"
"No," Fariello replied. "I can get back to you."
"Will the rule look differently or more thoroughly at the possibility of high-rise modular?" Lander asked.
"Yeah," Fariello replied. "When the bulletin was created, there was no one contemplating high-rise to us. So, as we evolve as a department, as new ideas come to us, new projects, we're certainly going to have that in mind." (Note that, if Forest City had not formally presented plans for modular in April 2011, they had surfaced in the press.)
Lander observed that, if the department needs additional resources, Council should make sure they're provided: "We need a final rule in place that does contemplate high-rise modular."
Querying Forest City
Why had no one else tried modular high-rises in New York?
It required significant investment and time, responded Cotton.
Council Members James (l.) and Elizabeth Crowley
James asked about the impact of Superstorm Sandy on the Navy Yard, which flooded.
"We had some work going on in the Navy Yard during Sandy," Cotton responded carefully. "We're certainly aware of the impacts that the storm had. Our factory wasn't complete, I think there are lessons to be learned."
"This project was subject to a state environmental review process," James noted. "Was there any environmental review with respect to modular housing"
"Not that I'm aware of," Cotton responded. "The environmental. review was done many years ago. At that time, we weren't planning this tower this way."
She noted that the steel for the tower is manufactured out of state, at Banker Steel in Lynchburg, VA, but that's "noxious, industrial sort of work" not typically done in New York.
Asked to comment on a news report that deemed modular construction ambitious and risky, Cotton responded, "It's ambitious, we don't think it's risky."
Steel vs. concrete
Sanna said Forest City and its partners examined the modular tower in Wolverhampton, UK, that's currently the world's tallest modular.
"We are using structural steel brace frames and then bolting the modules and connecting those modules together; they're using a concrete core," he stated. "We felt there were many more routes for discrepancy, the steel-to-steel tolerances could be much more exact." He noted that the steel chassis and brace frame are both being made by Banker Steel.
Forest City's plans to not use concrete drew critical testimony from Joseph Kaming, representing the Cement League, an associations of union contractors that put in place structural concrete. (His testimony was seconded by the United Cement Masons' Union.)
"All can celebrate new thinking," he stated, but argued that tall modular buildings exacerbate some of the problems--fire safety, durability--seen in smaller modular buildings.
The city, he said, "should thoroughly review and establish specific individualized standards for tall modular buildings if they are to be permitted. Such construction is unique and does not fit into the existing Building Code."
He said toxic, fire, and electrical testing was needed, as would be "fire channeling or chimney effects peculiar to stacked construction." He requested an environmental impact statement as a precondition to any application or permit approval, full compliance with existing code, and a new Building Code section regarding modular construction.
"We do not believe the Buildings Department has conducted a legal and proper review of the Atlantic Yards' 32-story residential tower which would justify its approval," he said.
Asked if his organization had filed a Freedom of Information Law (FOIL) request for details about the tower, Kaming said the DOB didn't answer. He said the Cement League recognized that pursuing the issue with a lawsuit could jeopardize relations for some members, which deal with DOB regularly.
"When you start transporting something that is 14 feet wide and 35 feet long," he said of the modules, "and begin to lift it in a structure, with wind considerations, that is an entirely different matter. You probably are aware Forest City Ratner has specifically identified the dimensions of the system so they don't have to hire a licensed rigger... because a licensed rigger would add to their cost."
Kaming acknowledged that modular units have their place, but deserved an independent review. "That's why an environmental impact statement, if in fact they had been honest and talked about modular housing," he said, "would have had to include modular housing at the outset. Because it's a different category of structure."
Yesterday morning featured yet another well-produced Atlantic Yards press event--not a press conference with questions and dialogue, but a for-the-cameras parade of speakers, inside a tent near the corner of Flatbush Avenue and Dean Street, with a rectangular metal modular chassis--not yet filled with the components of an apartment--in the background.
Public officials and Atlantic Yards developers/backers all saluted Forest City Ratner's plans for 32-story, 363-unit B2, the tallest modular tower in the world and the fulfillment--so they said--of ambitious plans for affordable housing.
Well, modular housing--assuming Forest City pulls it off--would indeed be innovative, lowering construction costs and impacts, and potentially leading to a new industry and new jobs, changing "the way cities are built," according to Mayor Mike Bloomberg.
Unclear, of course, is whether much if any of the savings would be passed on to the consumer. After all, Forest City Ratner executive MaryAnne Gilmartin told investment analysts last month: "We believe if we go modular, it would be invisible to the consumer. This building should perform at the level of finish, fit and feel commensurate with a conventional building, so it is priced accordingly."
News outlets including The Atlantic Cities (describing the modules as "14 feet wide, 35 feet long and 10 feet tall"), NY1, and the New York Observer focused on the modular angle. (Documents, including press release and fact sheet, at bottom.) No one--nor this blog, in earlier version--mentioned that the tower was long delayed; in fact, Gilmartin in September 2010 predicted starting in the spring of 2011.
Photo by Matt Chaban/NY Observer
Promises kept?
Speakers talked up the 2,250 "affordable" units, with the first 181 coming in the summer of 2014 when this building is expected to open.
The other two apartment towers in the arena block should start in a sequence six to nine months after the previous tower, but there's no plan yet for the flagship office tower, slated to deliver a good chunk of expected Atlantic Yards revenues.
“This is a promise made and a promise kept, the beginning of the most progressive affordable housing program in our city’s and country’s history," asserted Bertha Lewis, who helped negotiate the affordable housing Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in 2005 as head of New York ACORN. (That MOU required ACORN to publicly support the project, and Forest City later bailed out national ACORN with a $1.5 million grant/loan.)
Actually, the promise of subsidized units may be met, but not the configuration promised. Speakers, of course, didn't mention the 2,250 market-rate units, or that fact that, as several civic groups pointed out, the subsidized housing wouldn't many Brooklynites who had hopes for the project.
“It’s not just that Brooklyn isn’t getting the affordable housing it was promised and is woefully needed,” said Michelle de la Uz, Executive Director of the Fifth Avenue Committee. “By using up the available subsidies to finance smaller apartments for tenants in higher income brackets, FCRC is making it harder to build truly affordable units elsewhere in the City.”
In a sign of broader interest, if not support, from elected officials, those attending, as mentioned from the dais, included not only public supporters like Rep. Yvette Clarke and Council Member Dominic Recchia, but also Council Members Mathieu Eugene and Jumaane Williams, both (I think) supporters, and indicted Assemblyman William Boyland, whose sister Tracy ran against AY opponent Sen. Velmanette Montgomery.
Also, Assemblymember Joan Millman, a sometime critic of Atlantic Yards, attended, as did more forceful critic Council Member Brad Lander and longtime opponent Council Member Letitia James--both, apparently, wanting to know about affordable housing, at least.
Borough President Marty Markowitz was both ebullient and feisty, at one point stating sarcastically, "I see some folks who weren't able to make the groundbreaking of the Barclays Center. Some of you weren't able to make the ribbon-cutting... I want to say how thrilled I am you're here today." He didn't mention anybody by name, but I suspect he meant James and Lander.
Markowitz said he was thrilled by the economic development brought by big spenders coming to arena events, and jabbed back at those concerned about Barclays Center impacts: "By the way, the world didn't end. Atlantic Avenue is still there... Some would argue that the traffic is moving faster on Flatbush Avenue."
"Bottom line, what's good for Atlantic Yards is good for Brooklyn," Markowitz declared. (Wow.)
Complication: affordable housing
Unmentioned were the complications in the narrative. Yes, Forest City plans a building with 50% subsidized housing. However, despite the statement by Lewis that promises were fulfilled, those 181 affordable units, all studios and one-bedrooms except for 36 two-bedrooms, hardly match the promise of 50% of units (in square footage) devoted to two- and three-bedroom apartments.
"Our commitment to the housing at Atlantic Yards never waned," declared Forest City Ratner Executive VP MaryAnne Gilmartin. "Nor did our commitment to the affordable housing. The new economic landscape, post-2008, however, created unprecedented challenges."
Her boss later seconded that. "What is most important, and what I care most about, is that it is affordable," Bruce Ratner declared. But of course the commitment to affordable housing did wane.
The 36 two-bedroom subsidized units, as I've reported, would not be distributed evenly across the five affordable income "bands," but would have only nine (instead of 14+) units for low-income households and 17 (instead of 7+) units for the highest middle-income band, with households earning well over six figures.
After the event, I asked HPD Commissioner Mathew Wambua about whether he expected Forest City would meet the pledge to build 50% of the affordable units as larger units. "I would talk to them about that," he said. "Certainly, I would support as diverse a unit mix as possible."
Can public officials enforce the pledge? "It's something we can be part of the dialogue about," Wambua responded. Note that city agencies did get Forest City to build more two-bedroom subsidized units than the developer initially wanted, but the number's still far less than the pledge.
Complication: union jobs
The challenges were solved, according to Gilmartin, via a new way to build, achieving world-class design, with greater efficiency and sustainability, with safer work conditions and lowered community impacts.
Who helped Forest City "crack the code"? Gilmartin cited SHoP, Arup, and Forest City colleagues, and then saluted new partner Skanska, which has joined with Forest City to establish a factory at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. (Unmentioned: partner XSite, whose partnership with Forest City was the subject of a bitter lawsuit.)
"One thing hasn't changed, and that's union labor, which will build this building, like all Forest City building," Gilmartin. In the spring, some 125 union workers will be working in the factory, along with 25 non-union workers.
It's been reported that workers in the factory will earn some 25% less than on-site workers, but Forest City claims that there will be the same number of work hours. There was no proof of that offered, and my back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest the number will go down.
Gary LaBarbera, president of the Building and Construction Trades Council of Greater New York City, explained, "We saw without that modular construction that these projects would more than likely not go forward. And we too in the building trades have a sense of community, a commitment to the community, and were equally concerned about affordable housing."
But if Forest City Ratner reneged on the affordable housing it would have to pay penalties and lose development rights, so the unions had more power than LaBarbera acknowledged, especially since Forest City needed union approval to proceed.
Also, the overall tax revenues from construction labor, given the lowered compensation and (likely) fewer numbers, should lower revenue estimates.
Bloomberg and his joke
"Atlantic Yards has already brought a huge boon to Brooklyn," said a lighthearted Mike Bloomberg, who later joked that he might qualify for the affordable housing when the tower opens in mid-2014.
Actually, he didn't say the rapid pace of construction at Atlantic Yards defied all expectations--after all, the groundbreaking for the first tower has been put off again and again. Rather, his "ahead of schedule" comment referred to his administration's overall goals for affordable housing. See video at 8:28.
Bruce Ratner
Bruce Ratner was proud, and a bit defensive. "It was said that we would build the Barclays Center and walk away," Ratner said. Not sure how many said that; after all, Ratner's profits also relate to the "entitlement" to build.
He offered effusive thanks to ACORN, Mutual Housing of New York, New York Communities for Change, and members of the Atlantic Yards Community Benefits Agreement (CBA).
Numerous backers of Atlantic Yards housing were in the room--some who testified at public hearings--and at least four CBA partners were there, besides Lewis: James Caldwell of the now-defunct BUILD; Charlene Nimmons of Public Housing Communities; Len Britton of the NY Association of Minority Contractors; and Joe Coello of Brooklyn Voices for Children.
"Bertha Lewis is our partner, and she is my friend," Ratner said. "How did I meet Bertha? She protested me, for weeks and weeks and weeks. And finally I said to my quote-handlers, 'Bring her up.'
"Like all marriages, we've had our ups and downs," he said, "but it's a wonderful marriage."
Bertha Lewis
Lewis took the stage to applause from a good number of followers in the audience.
"This project has been a long time in coming. I feel like I've been pregnant for eight years. And finally we're gonna burst this baby. And I got 14 more to go," the theatrical Lewis said, adding sardonically, "So, thanks for knocking me up, Bruce."
She said New York ACORN, "when we first heard about this project, we didn't really know... much about it," so "we polled our members... and, across the board, our members said, 'housing, housing. And if you remember, the original proposition here was to be all luxury housing."
However, when members were polled, they were not asked about affordable housing accessible to those in their income bracket. And the plan announced at the 12/10/03 public launch was to include affordable housing.
So it's difficult to understand what she meant by "the original proposition." In a 10/27/03 article, before Atlantic Yards was officially unveiled, New York Magazine reported:
Adjacent to a new arena, Ratner plans to build a $2 billion, 21-acre development featuring both retail and office space and some 5,500 units of housing, which he says will come in various-size buildings and serve various income levels.
According to John Atlas's sympathetic book on ACORN, Seeds of Change, ACORN surveyed its members in November and December of 2003 and came up with a plan by January 2004, though the Housing MOU wasn't signed until May 2005:
Soon after the November 2003 election, Lewis began meeting with Jon Kest, sixteens neighborhood leaders... Ismane [sic; actually Ismene] Speliotis, the Director of New York ACORN Housing Corporation... They consulted with city planners, reviewed the city's housing data.... During November and December, the ACORN staff brought the issue to the membership... By January 2004, ACORN's housing expert, Ismane Speliotis, had come up with a plan...
Yesterday, Lewis emotionally saluted longtime ally Jon Kest, executive director of NYCC, who died recently, for the work he did helping establish the housing plan.
A Q&A with Skanska
Curbed published a Q&A with Skanska executive John Dolan, who said:
I think it's better for the industry that we find strategies to build elements and entire projects offsite to minimize the amount of construction that occurs on the work site. The Atlantic Yards site is very difficult to navigate around. We're reducing the amount of activity. There will be fewer trucks.
Tomorrow, at a press conference, a host of people will celebrate the groundbreaking for the first tower at Atlantic Yards--a 32-story, 363-unit B2, which should be the world's tallest modular building.
Officials expected include Mayor Mike Bloomberg, Borough President Marty Markowitz, Forest City Ratner CEO Bruce Ratner, Forest City Enterprises CEO David LaRue, Building and Construction Trades Council of Greater New York President Gary LaBarbera, Skanska USA Building CEO William Flemming, and Bertha Lewis--the latter whose affiliation isn't billed, but who signed the May 2005 Affordable Housing Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Forest City as the leader of New York ACORN.
At the groundbreaking, Forest City will display one of the 930 modules used to create the apartments, "50 percent of which will be affordable," according to a press notice.
50 percent affordable
But what does 50 percent affordable mean, and how does that comport with initial promises?
As I reported in August for the Brooklyn Bureau, the housing MOU promised not only that 50 percent of the rentals would be affordable but that 50 percent of the latter, in square footage, would be devoted to two- and three-bedroom units.
At other points, Lewis and Forest City claimed not that half the affordable square footage, but that half the affordable units would be two- or three-bedroom.
Instead, as Forest City said in a recent presentation (excerpt above), 20% of affordable units will be two-bedroom units, with no three-bedroom units.
Why so few? Because the city offers subsidy per unit, not per bedroom, and it costs Forest City more to build larger units. Also, the city and Forest City's Community Benefits Agreement partners have pushed back only partially, accepting a deviation from the pledge. So, one lingering question: will Forest City fulfill the pledge in future towers?
Skew toward higher incomes
Also, as I reported in August, the two-bedroom units are not distributed evenly across the five affordable "bands," two of which are low-income, three moderate- and middle-income:
But Tower 2's skew toward higher incomes remains. Of the 36 subsidized two-bedroom units, nine would be occupied by low-income families, five would be set aside for renters of moderate-income, five for the first middle-income band and 17 would be subsidized for the highest affordable “band,” with monthly rents, of $2,740 today (plus electric), and surely higher when the building opens in a year or two. While that’s some discount off market—new two-bedroom, two-bath high-rise apartments in nearby downtown Brooklyn cost $3,300-plus—that's too much for “the missing class” of people just above poverty, as well as those below the line who rallied with ACORN for Atlantic Yards.
That configuration may have been tweaked--no one's said so--but, if so, likely not significantly.
So, another lingering question: In the future, will the larger apartments be distributed evenly?
The rough math suggests 250 workers over 18 months, assuming they work steadily, though that's not assured. If so, that's 375 job-years to build 363 units, plus the jobs associated with trucking and other support services.
That suggests fewer than 7,000 job-years (not counting trucking, etc.) to build the 6,430 apartments planned. (That doesn't count the unbuilt office tower.)
Still, Forest City said the number of man-hours to build the first tower will be approximately the same as conventional construction, but wouldn't answer a question about a similar calculation: the number of job-years involved.
Will construction match the 15,000 and 17,000 jobs (actually, job-years) once promised for the project? They should show us the math for both the original and current calculation.
Under the new agreement, Mr. La Barbera said union factory workers would earn $55,000 a year, 25 percent less than the average union construction worker. But, he said, the trade-off is that the factory worker will work steady hours throughout the year, regardless of the weather.
That still doesn't answer the question: does that mean the same amount of job-years for the project?
There was one new tidbit of Atlantic Yards news in a quarterly conference call Forest City Enterprises executives held yesterday with investment analysts: a new source of funding for the first Atlantic Yards tower.
According to the 12/6/12 earnings press release, CEO David LaRue said:
As we first announced at our October 22 Investor Day at Barclays Center, we are in the process of finalizing a partnership with a large institutional investor to create a $400 million multifamily development fund to invest in five of our core markets. The fund will target activation of our existing entitlement as well as select new opportunities. We expect to complete the partnership agreement before the end of the year and to provide investors with more detail at that time.
Yesterday he added this detail: "We anticipate that B2, our first apartment building at Atlantic Yards in Brooklyn, will be the first asset that the fund will invest in."
Other observations
CFO Bob O'Brien said the arena has hosted more than 40 events, and has received over 400,000 visitors.
The 2015 arrival of the hockey Islanders, with an anticipated 40+ games, will "help us achieve our $70 million annualized [revenue] target," he said.
Asked about the ownership interest on the arena, O'Brien said "our legal interest is about 34%... together with the original partners to buy the Nets, we own 55% of the arena."
To develop the arena, Forest City advanced capital. "That capital has a preference, both return on and of that capital before the equity gets a return," he said. It will take "a minimum of at least five, more likely seven-plus years, we, Forest City, will get a return on and of that advance... we will be benefiting from 55% of the economics coming out of the Barclays Center."
